Yes. That’s a good question. I just want to keep growing it and obviously thinking about what kind of features are people willing to pay for and adding those and then what else can you do to help people who are wanting shortened URLs? So I did start working on a feature and it’s like maybe 10% of what it could be, but I called it one links which are like LinkedIn bio type of thing. So if you’re familiar with those I think like linktree. So I built that feature. So I thought if I keep working on that, that people would be interested in signing up for the service and then adding their own domain and using it. Right now it’s real basic, it’s pretty much you could just get one link and then you can add in multiple links. Adding your social media, but I don’t have like theming. So that’s kind of something I want to see about adding more features to that. Maybe some more analytics stuff people have asked for. And then I think at some point I may look at getting a better design on the home page and start thinking more about marketing and maybe more blog posts, more content. So to continue to grow it classic developer want to think more about marketing. And the theme that you mentioned, chris and I just did theming independently I think on the same week we both made theming for each of our apps for future development of stuff we were going to do. I’m curious about who your current paying customers are. Who is the person who is paying for premium link shortening? Are these businesses, are most of your paying users coming from people who are using this link tree building feature? Why are people giving you money? That’s something I probably need to do a better job at, talk to the customers. I think that’s kind of a common problem. But I’ve seen teachers to businesses, teachers use it a lot I guess for creating short links. I guess it depends on the free users. The free users are probably a wide variety of people, anybody who’s just needed to create one offshore links. And then I do have businesses using it and they’ll use it for the print material, the QR code stuff. So I do have a little more than a basic QR code builder kind of built into the site to where you can add an image and customize colors and things like that. So people are doing QR code stuff. But yeah, really marketers are probably the biggest one. Just people who are sending out links. The API was kind of built because at my previous company we had to build something to send SMS and include links. So that was kind of where I thought, okay, which people are using it for that? So they’ll use the API and create short URLs because with SMS you have a limited number of characters. So that’s like a big use case. If you had to double MRR in three months, what would you do? What would you focus on? That’s a tough one. If I knew that I would do it. You say that, but I feel like Chris and I have known that we needed to do that. I often know the right answer and ignore it anyway. Yeah, probably more marketing because it’s like, fortunately, it’s good and bad URL shortener, depending on you could go look at some of the other ones and they have some really advanced features that I don’t even know what they really do, but for most people, if they’re just creating short links, it’s just giving them that ability and then helping them out with the custom domain stuff. So, yeah, I think maybe just if I were to spend most of the time, it probably be marketing to kind of get the word out. That would probably be where I’d focus, which I think for most developers, that’s kind of the biggest challenge. I think if every developer trying to build something, if they could also partner with somebody who’s really good at marketing. Are you aware of, like, Justin Jackson? Yeah. And him building Transistor. He’s really good at marketing. And then he paired with the developer and they had a successful podcasting hosting company. So that’s where I would probably put all my focus on marketing. Yes, that’s the dream. We all got to find our own Justin Jackson. You’re doing marketing right now, talking on a podcast. That’s pretty good. And you are in the Chrome App Store playing that game. That sounds good. And you’ve got your blog posts for people finding you. What else might you focus on for marketing? Are you doing any sort of paid ads? Is there another channel of I don’t know where people would go to look for a link shortener, like where the businesses would go that are paying for this sort of thing? What sorts of marketing things would you do to increase MRI? Yeah. So? I don’t know. I guess people have in their mind, I need a URL shortener. I think if I could figure out a set of companies and developers that are needing to shorten URLs, and when they say, hey, we could just build this ourselves, or we could just use this API, maybe right now you can use the API, but I don’t have, like, SDKs for all languages. That might be something I could focus on. And then you mentioned paid ad. So recently I’ve been feeling like I’m just wasting money, but learning about Google search ads, I actually played around with Facebook ads and Twitter ads. There’s so much there, and it’s definitely easy to spend a lot of money and not see a lot of results. So I don’t know if you have any experience with that. Right now, I’m running campaigns and trying to see if I can convert people from that are searching because that’s where I thought, okay, where are people looking? They’re probably not looking on Facebook for a URL shortener to Pay, maybe Twitter. And then I was like, they’re probably searching Google. So that’s why I went with the paid search ads and trying to figure out the best way to target people who are searching for those keywords. You asked if we had experience. I do have experience losing money on paid ads. I also have experience losing money on paid ads. It’s a game, though, that I’ve seen people just kill it. I know it works if you can unlock it. Like, Moyzova has a whole consultancy based on Facebook ads. If you can unlock it’s, tweak the right things, and have a tight enough funnel like, that can kill. Jordan Gaul had a talk at Microcomp, I think, two or three years ago about how he bought something like $5,000 in Facebook ads and turned that into something like half a million in increased arr. I know it works, and it feels very frustrating that I haven’t quite cracked, like, oh, these are the things I need to type into Google AdWords that turns this into a machine where I can put money in and get more money out. The Chrome App Store does not have paid ads, is that right? Not that no, you can advertise your extension on Google’s search, but no, they don’t have a way, I guess maybe to promote it within the extension store. I think they could definitely do that. And people would be willing to pay because there’s a lot of extensions out there that are willing to probably pay to be featured right now. It’s like a hand picked thing. It also seems like who you know, type of thing. If you know somebody I was fortunate. My weather extension was picked as Editors choice for firefox or for their mozilla store. That’s cool. Yeah. But I don’t know if I’ve ever been picked as a Chrome top one, but I know that you can go and look and see the other kind of features. I don’t know how much that helps, though. That’s really interesting because that might mean that an effective marketing tactic is figuring out who the intern is at Google, who’s picking those choices, just sending them stuff, like buying them lunch and sending them cakes and get to know whoever the people are who are making those decisions. That’s interesting. Yeah. If you could figure it out, that would be could help you out. I don’t know. This is a problem that Chris is about to start taking into on the Slack App Store. So I feel like a lot of these things are directly analogous, that marketplaces in general sort of operate under the same sort of rules. If there’s a tactic of, like, you just got to get featured, and to get featured, you got to schmooze the person who picks who the featured people are, that seems like a playbook that could be copied for every marketplace that there is. Yeah, I think doesn’t Apple allow you to pay in the App Store to be promoted recently? I think yeah, I think so. Yeah. And shopify does as well. I could see Chrome if you go look at their ads, that’s how they make most of their money. But I can see them or Google adding eventually the Chrome web store. If you look at it, I don’t know if it’s really been updated very much in ten years or so, it’s pretty much been the same. So I think if they could, you know, eventually they may come back and say, all right, let’s revamp this thing, and then make it to where you could promote your extension. I think they could make money doing it too. In the meantime, I feel like it’s advantageous to incumbents to have 400,000 installs with a really good name. That is the name people are searching for. I feel like you’re playing that game really well. It sounds like for as much as you can be marketing on the Chrome App Store, you’re doing it, you’ve got the screenshots, you’ve got a really good name, you’ve got the install, so you’re going to pop up the top that list. So that’s a healthy channel, it sounds like. Neat. What a cool business. I think this is my new example mentally, of like, a simple technical business that lets you focus on what the marketing thing is like. Bingo card creator was just fascinating to me because I was like, oh, my God, you can make money for generating bingo cards. You take a list of words, you shuffle them around, you put them in a grid, and he’s making how much money for that amazing. In the same sort of a link shortener is a crowdedish marketplace. There are known people to do this, and yet there are still businesses and people who are able to find their own niche. If you just have a unique marketing channel. I get customers from the Chrome App store. It can be a totally viable business, even though technically it may not do anything differently than Tiny Rail does, although you have the tree pages, which is interesting. But it’s really cool to me that the differentiation and software businesses doesn’t need to be that you made some crazy technical innovation with shorter links. Although you do, I guess you have links that are like, two characters shorter. I think the message I’m getting is it’s much more about the marketing and how are people finding you and how can you help people as quickly as possible when they’re looking for this with a limited attention span? Yeah, I think especially if you’re not looking for funding and you’re not kind of the direction I’m trying to go is, if you’re creating a brand new market, you have to educate people, and people don’t necessarily know they need it and all that stuff. So in this case, people. Already kind of understood what it did and it’s pretty self explanatory. So that’s definitely usually the products or ideas I usually go after are more on the simple. There’s already people doing it and making money off of it, and then, how can I just make it better, make it a little different, and then trying to figure out how to market it. Love it. Tim, thank you so much for your time. Where can people find out more about you? And more importantly, where can they go to get shorter links if they have very long URLs? Yeah, I guess to find more about me. My blog is timlean.com and I post tech related stuff and then quite a bit about extensions. And then also I’m pretty active on Twitter. I don’t have a great Twitter handle, but it’s Tim Leland. And then obviously the T.LY domain is another place to go if you need to create short URLs. And feel free to reach out if you have any questions. Sounds good. We will link to all those in the show notes. I don’t have a good sign off for when we have three people. Usually I say, see you next week, but we’re not going to see you next week. Goodbye. Thank you. It was great talking to you. Yeah, it was great. I enjoyed it. You all had a lot of getting insight.